Ep 59: How Ferrum Network Is Connecting Blockchains and Enabling the Future of Decentralized Applications with Nick Odio

In this episode of Dr. Brook on the Block, Nick Odio shares his story of how he arrived in the Web Three world and his vision for Ferrum Network's Interoperability 2.0 - a product that allows for developers to build applications in a single environment and deploy them across multiple environments.

Nick Odio is the chief growth officer at Ferrum Network. He deals with the product side of things, the growth initiatives, deals with partnerships and figures out which blockchains they're going to connect with.

This is Nick Odio's story...

I had always been passionate about abolishing the Federal Reserve, so when my friend suggested I look into Bitcoin in 2017, I dove right in. Over the years, I weathered the crypto winter, learning and investing as I went. In 2019, I became involved with Ferrum Network, a blockchain as a service company, and I eventually joined the team two years later. We built a suite of products that allowed us to generate revenue, and we've been able to scale the team to 35 members. Our core product is Interoperability 2.0, which allows developers to deploy applications across multiple networks and leverage their unique selling points. This has the potential to bring about mass adoption and reach new users.

In this episode, you will learn the following:

1. How Ferrum Network is creating Interoperability by allowing developers to deploy multi-chain apps and smart contracts, and enabling users to leverage the value propositions of different blockchains.

2. How Ferrum Network has been able to build and scale the company with only a small capital fundraise.

3. The issue of "Honey Pots" caused by bridges, and how Ferrum Network is looking to tackle this issue.

Connect with Nick:

Website: https://ferrum.network/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/FerrumNetwork

Discord: https://discord.com/invite/HEfKq57asd

Free Download:

The Words of Web3 - A comprehensive glossary of terms used in the space https://mailchi.mp/9d043022b5a0/words-of-web3

Connect with me:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbrooksheehan

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DrBrookSheehan

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/drbrooksheehan

Transcript

[Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Hey.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Hey.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Dr. Brook here with another epic episode of Dr. Brook on the Block. I am joined by an epic copilot, Nick Odio. Did I pronounce your last name correctly?
 
 [Nick Odio]
 You did. Thanks.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Perfect. Nick is the chief growth officer at the moment, and we're going to get to learn all about Ferrum network and what they're doing in the Web3 space. But before that, I just want to say a little bit about what he does as the growth officer of the company. He deals with the product side of things, the growth initiatives, deals with partnerships and figures out which blockchains they're going to connect with. But you're going to get to learn a lot more about Ferrum network once we get started with the episode. Thank you so much for being here, Nick. Really appreciate you.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Absolutely. So first things first. Every guest gets this question. My listeners know this by now, but we want to know how did you arrive in the Web3 world today?
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah, so I think my story kind of starts off as I was a bit of an idealist in terms of what sound money should really look like. Ever since I can remember, really. As soon as I kind of got wind of how the federal reserve worked and how our money was really backed by anything, I started doing a lot of digging in history, in high school even, and became pretty adamant about abolishing the federal reserve and all that kind of talk. With so many folks in Web3 seems to have kind of gotten their roots where their route started. So in 2017, a friend of mine said, like, man, you've always been talking about how I know, and it sounds like kind of like a long time to really find out about Bitcoin in 2017 after being pretty adamant about the Fed and all that prior. But a friend was like, man, you've talked about this for years. Why don't you invest in bitcoin? Do you know about Bitcoin? Do you know about blockchain? And I was like, I haven't heard of it, like soap road and stuff like that. Tell me more. And we watched a documentary on it, and I was like, oh, my gosh, where is this in my whole life? How do I miss this? And pretty much touched on all of those kind of things that I was passionate about in terms of centralized banking systems and things of that nature and how to circumvent that. I dove pretty deep down the rabbit hole and within a few months I was already investing into low cap alts and things of that nature and weathered the crypto winter that ensued pretty shortly after because I caught that Hype train, unfortunately, at the peak of the Bull Run, I think it was like October is when I got in. So I was like, man, this is never going to end. Crypto is just going to keep going up and up and up. And that was kind of my root awakening into the way that markets work, but stuck with it through the bear and kind of started to see where Web3 was heading in the next full run, which happened these last couple of years. And during Crypto summer, defy summer, I should say, I started investing into a lot of, like, lowcap DeFi plays, and my interests kind of moved into DFI and started messing around with a lot of different D Five protocols and whatnot. And I found a company called Farm Network who I invested pretty heavily in, really loved with what they were building at the time. And I joined their governance committee and started contributing kind of as a community member. And I came on board the team about almost two years ago now because they've been around since 2018. Kind of an old school project that's always done a really good job of moving through the space and figuring out how to evolve and pivot when necessary and always provide value. And I saw that as a sign of strength, and I wanted to be a part of it. So about two years ago, I came on board the team when we were about six employees only, as I was like one of the first few people to be hired after the founders, Naomi, and started the company. And since then, we've scaled the team to about 35 employees.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 So great. That's awesome. Well, I want to connect some dots just for the listeners because right now you might be listening to this episode going, well, we are in a bear market. We are in a crypto winter, so to speak. But Nick is actually talking about what happened in 2018. So he got in 17. We went through a crypto winter in 2018. There was another bear market at that point. The bear is still out right now. It's come out of hibernation. Just take this opportunity, like I've said on so many episodes, is to learn, learn, learn, learn and educate yourself on the space. That's what we're doing here with Dr. Brook on the Block podcast and getting to introduce you to cool characters like this. So that's a really fun story. Nick, I am with you in terms of the Federal Reserve, people know when they listen to this that I never will say the US. Dollar, because there's no such thing as the United States dollar. It's the Federal Reserve note.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah, totally.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 So we're in alignment with that. I didn't get in until early 2021, so you definitely have some years ahead of me on that. But with that being said, thank you so much for sharing that amazing story and the rabbit hole that you dove right into and getting you here. So let's really get the listeners understanding what Ferrum Network is doing and maybe try to explain it in elementary terms as best as possible and then I'll kind of piece together some things if I see a need.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah, absolutely. So right now, Farm our main focus is Interoperability. We got started as a blockchain as a service company, so we were creating different white label products for existing projects in the space. That started creating Staking as a service solutions, which we've deployed for a couple hundred projects across multiple ecosystems, like Finance, Ethereum, Polygon Avalanche. We've just integrated our first Nadia EVM compatible network algorithm with our product suite that started back in 2019 and has continued since. So those Staking as a service solutions have been deployed for a couple hundred projects, about 200 projects across multiple ecosystems. We've had a Lifetime TV, which is total value, locked in those Staking contracts of about a half a billion dollars. And it's allowed us to create a very broad ecosystem of partners, which we call the Iron Alliance. The Iron Alliance consists of projects from multiple different ecosystems across the space, from metaverse, to gaming, to NFTs, to Defy, to layer one and layer two networks themselves, to auditing firms, all sorts of stuff. We've grown a very big community of ecosystem partners through these products that we've been deploying for a few years now that evolved into an incubator. A lot of projects started coming to us saying, hey, we realize that you've got a big ecosystem of partners, you have a great suite of products, you seem to navigate your way around the space really well. We're going to launch a project and we were hoping you could advise us. So we saw that as another opportunity to create another vertical where we started a Farm Advisory Services. It's a branch of the company that helps incubate projects pretty much from like pre architecture before they even decide which network they're going to launch on, all the way through token generation Events, Tge and beyond. And so we help them with fundraising, designing tokenomics, introducing them to VCs, centralized exchanges in DEXs for liquidity purposes, pretty much run the gamma with those projects and then be a tech provider for them once they actually launch their product after they have their PG. And so those two things have kind of been our bread and butter for a long time, and those two things have allowed us to generate revenue, which is something that a lot of Web3 projects can't save for themselves. Right? A lot of times it comes down to like, let me sell some tokens so I can pay salaries. We've actually never had to sell any tokens of our own for the purposes of paying salaries. In fact, our tokens are still vesting, our team tokens. We haven't even touched any of our team tokens and we actually just extended the vesting for another year. So we've got like a four or five year vesting, I think it's from 2019 to 2023. Four year vesting schedule team tokens, which is unheard of most people have like a year and then the team starts getting tokens. So we've been able to generate revenue to pay salaries and actually scale the team through a bear market from about six employees to about 35 employees is what we are right now. So that kind of like reflects a company that would have raised tens of millions of dollars, whereas we only raised 1.2 million back in 2018 and has been able to scale the team because of products and services that we've been able to offer. So that's kind of gotten us to where we are now.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 OK, so first you guys started as the service, the staking as a service. Then you went into the incubator and helping others and then now you guys are doing something called Inoperability 2.0. Correct. Is that the core product of Ferrum?
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah, that's the core vision right now, I would say, which is kind of compiled of multiple different products, I would say.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 I want to briefly say something really quick just for the listener. So when Nick is saying Inoperability, or when I'm saying that essentially what that means to break it down into understandable terms is there are multiple different blockchains out there and essentially those blockchains are like little silos or little containers in which they exist. So if you think about I like to use the analogy of countries like the United States is a country. We have different things that exist within the United States that may not exist in Canada and Mexico, but we also have the ability to transport across border lines into Canada or into Mexico via train, via car, via plane. However, what Nick is saying theorem is going into is the ability to get out of that silo blockchain like Ethereum or Tezos or Salona or whatever blockchains and be able to cross borders and interact with those seamlessly, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah, that's a really cool analogy. I've never heard the country analogy.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Fine, don't steal it.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 It's not I think I'm going to steal it. I'm sorry.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Okay. Nick is on record. He just told me.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 It's fantastic. That's a really good way of putting it. So yes, interoperability we think, is super important because right now I feel like we're operating as a space in Web3 at a fraction of how we should be operating. Developers are very much siloed from each other in terms of what sort of projects they can work on across those borders that you talked about because of the siloed nature of Web3 as it is right now. So in web two, in terms of being able to deploy applications across different operating systems, something called NodeJS came into play for web two and allowed for a lot of these applications to be deployed across multiple different operating systems. We're essentially doing that for Web3 is kind of one of the ways we describe this interoperability for a long time. Has just been viewed as something that means bridges, right, and moving assets across networks. But that's really not true interoperability. That's just interoperability 1.0. And that's where we get this Interoperability 2.0 that you can see on our website. What does that mean? Interoperability 2.0 goes far beyond just being able to move assets across networks. It's being able to move arbitrary information, data and messaging across networks, enabling developers to actually deploy multi chain V apps and multi chain smart contracts. So imagine an application we all use applications in Web3, and typically those applications only live on one network, right? But imagine an application that could not only live on multiple networks, but also leverage the unique selling points and the value propositions of those specific networks. So imagine an application that could use the speed of Solana with the security of Ethereum and the built in governance of Polkadot. Now, we're talking about some real, robust, decentralized applications that can be spun up because we're kind of circumventing the whole blockchain trial of speed, scalability, and decentralization if we're able to leverage the unique selling points of each individual network. That's what Ferrum Network is building, is a multichain messaging engine that allows for developers to build applications in a single environment and deploy them across multiple environments. So we're not like an east killer. We're not coming in and trying to beat we're trying to bring all the networks together, right?
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 And pull the like you said, the pieces of each of those chains that are great, like the security of Ethereum and the quickness of Solana and bring all of those good aspects and those good pieces together so that people when I hear you say that, what I'm thinking is this is how we reach mass adoption. This is how we hit scale. This is how we do all of these things. Because living in Silos, like, really condensing people down to just being in the United States. And you can't travel, and this is what you have to do. We've all lived that two years ago. We don't want to live that. We want to be able to travel amongst different places throughout the world. And that's how you may not have the listeners I'm speaking to. You may not have a technical background. It may not understand some of the things that Nick are talking about when he talks about the apps. Essentially, it's a Web3 term for decentralized applications. It's no different than the apps you use on your iPhone or the apps you use on your Google Android phone. It's no different. Like, the Uber app still works on the iPhone and the Uber app still works on the Google Play Store that is deployed in both operating systems, right? And you're able to use it just the same. And so that is the beauty of like, I'm listening to it and I'm like, wow, that's super incredible. What's going to happen as a result of that? So very cool, Nick.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Well, we think that's it.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Yeah, definitely. So this is the new vertical that Ferrum is going into. There are going to keep the other two verticals going though the other. So is this brand new to 2022? Because I did notice the roadmap only showed Q 120 22 and up through obviously the end of this year and what you guys are looking to accomplish.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah, so we've kind of taken a bit of a phased approach with this, where we started back about a year ago with the Ferrum cross chain token bridge. Right. So how we talk about interoperability 1.0 was bridges moving assets across networks. That to us is still the jankiest piece of infrastructure in the entire state because we've seen about two and a.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Half.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 It'S the best word I can think of this guy.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 I love it.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 We've seen about two and a half billion dollars worth of assets siphoned from these interoperability protocols. Over the last just within this year, I think we hit two, 5 billion. And then last year it was a total mess, too. And the reason this keeps happening is because of the architecture behind most of the way these bridges are designed. It employs something called a mint and burn or a lock and mint mechanism within the bridge. So that means that every time an asset is deposited into a bridge, a wrapped version of the asset is minted on the destination chain. Wherever you're trying to bridge the asset to, there's a wrapped version. I'm sure everyone's seen like WBTC, we those are wrapped tokens. But in order for because you've got supply and demand. Right. So in order for a token to maintain its supply, the version on the origin chain has to remain in a pool to maintain the peg of the wrapped asset that's being deployed on the other network. Because if they were all to be released, then it would mess up the token on it and the supply of those tokens and it would reduce the value.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Right.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 So anytime a wrapped asset is minted on a destination chain because of a bridge, there's an equivalent amount of those tokens sitting on a bridge somewhere, right.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Sitting on your originating blockchain totally through.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Typically that's managed by a third party bridge. It creates something we call Honey pots. Right. So there's a lot of money, hundreds of millions, billions sitting on bridges all around the space right now, and who's like licking their chops back there? Bad actors winning the poo poo, hackers.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Of the world hackers. Exactly.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 And that's enough of an incentive to warrant somebody trying to spend two years in order to figure out a way to exploit these bridges. Right. So what we did at Fair and we were like, all right, we need to reinvent the way that assets are moved across networks. And we came up with this kind of definition of our own definition of multi chain versus cross chain to us, whenever you say cross chain, it represents some sort of wrapping or minting mechanism that's inherited a bridge. Whereas multi chain means it's existing on multiple networks. So the native state of the asset exists on multiple networks. So when we launched our own token on multiple networks, we didn't have a wrapped version of the token. We had the actual native asset deployed on BSc, polygon, avalanche and ethereum. We kind of deployed on these multiple networks to test our theory of how we could create a better bridge from an architectural standpoint and an operational security standpoint. And so we've been able to do about $200 million worth of volume on our bridge just within our token. Our Token in the last year has done about 200 million in volume across the bridge. This is just our own community, but it's done this with very little liquidity in the bridge pools. At any given moment, no more than a million dollars of liquidity has ever been sitting idle on these bridges, and the bridge has never had interactive or operative control over a token contract, meaning the bridge has never been able to actually meant any tokens. It's not part of how we move assets across networks. So it's more of what we call proof of authority bridge. So people can deposit their tokens into the origin chain bridge pool and a series of Oracles and our Node infrastructure relays the message saying that an equivalent amount can be removed on the destination shape. But since we're only holding about a million dollars worth of liquidity at any given time, everyone says TVL is good. Total value locked is good. Total value locked is really good at D five. It's not good in bridges. And that's a common misconception. Everyone's like, wow, there's hundreds of millions of dollars sitting on that bridge. It's like, that's bad. That means someone's going to go, that's.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Like the honey pot. The honey pot. That's $100 million in a honey pot.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Exactly. Yeah. We wanted to figure out a way where we could still support the same amount of volume with a limited amount of liquidity. So that from an architectural standpoint, we're not minting any tokens and from an operational security standpoint, we're not incentivizing any bad actors. Needless to say, our bridge has never been exploited because of that knock on wood. But still, even if they did, it would only be about a million dollars that could be exploited as opposed to tens and hundreds of millions.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Right.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 So on a psychological standpoint, people just don't want to do it.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Well, I mean, if they're a bad actor, they're looking for big dollars. They're not looking for the coins under the couch cushions. They're like, where's the vaults in the house? Right? Like they're coming in trying to be all crazy like that. So that's really such a fascinating piece. You guys are like, probably the only ones in the marketplace doing this, because I've never heard of doing transfers the way that you're talking about it. Obviously, we know the Janky system that's happening currently, so yeah, very cool. Thank you for sharing that. Nick, I want to talk to you about polka dot, because you're using polka dot, not poked out. What's the other word that you attach to that?
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah, soma is kind of a hybrid word of polka dot and kusama. Kusama is polkadot's canary network. So it's like their sister chain that serves as an incentivized test net. So people can kind of build on kusala first and then, if it works, deploy on polka dot. Sometimes you see people building in parallel on both networks, so they have their own canary network, their own test set, but that's the word there is sama dot meets kusama. And then the other word that's important in polka dot and kusama is substrate.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 That's the one that I saw on the website. That's the one that I was like. Yeah.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 So what's a polka dot substrate is? There's a couple of different languages in Web3 that coders use that developers use. The most prominent one right now is Solidity, and that's what's used in EVM compatible networks. EVM means Ethereum virtual machine. So any network that can essentially the best way to think about this is any network that you can use in MetaMask is an EVM compatible network. Right. And so those are all kind of on the same foundation as Ethereum, using the same virtual machine as Ethereum. So that's solidity in a closely following solidity in terms of popularity, is a language called Rust, and Rust is what's used in Solana. Rust is used in networks like Casper. Rust is used in a multitude of other networks out there. Pretty much all of the nonvm compatible networks are using Rust, except for a few we've got algorithm, which uses Pyteel, which is their own language cardano, which uses Haskell. But rust is pretty much being used on a very widespread basis right now. But there's these different kind of iterations of rust, and one of those iterations is substrate. Substrate is basically a kind of a dialect of rust, so to speak. If you're thinking about it in terms of languages, it's kind of their own take on rust, and it's what polka dot uses. The parody team is behind Polkadot, and substrate is what's employed by polka dot projects, polka dot themselves, kusama and kusama projects, and it's a very powerful language that allows you to do a lot of different things.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Okay, so then to come back to the why question. So why polka dot substrate with farm network? How are you guys deploying up for what you guys are trying to do, or how are you using it for what you want to do?
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah, it's a great question. So one of the founders of Ethereum, along with metallic was a guy named Gavin Wood. He since branched off it's interesting. I think they're going to make a movie about this, actually.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 It branched off a lot. Even Charles from Cardano.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 That's what I was going to say. Charles Gavin. Yes, exactly. I'm glad you said it. That's super cool. They all three kind of started Ethereum, and then they all branch off into their own thing. And it could be argued that those three ecosystems are the three most competitive ecosystems in the space right now. You've got your Cardano maxis, you've got your polka dot maxis, you got your E Maxis, and they all make a case for themselves in terms of what we're trying to do. Polkadot and Kusama seemed like the best choice for us because they're very focused on interoperability. Gavin came out at one point and said they're taking a bet against blockchain maximalism with Polkadot, and that's essentially what Ferrum is doing. But what Polkadot does is it allows for all of these, what are called pera chains. They're networks that exist using polka dot. Polkadot is the blockchain of blockchains. Right. So with Ethereum, ethereum is a layer one. You can build applications on top of Ethereum. Polka dot is something that's called a layer zero. Now, there's only one true other layer zero in the space, which is Cosmos. But Cosmos and polka dot allow something very interesting for developers to do, which is build their own blockchains. Right. Ethereum just allows people to build their own applications. Right. Cardano allows people to build their own applications. Poked out allows people to build their own blockchains using the runtime of poke dot as this basically the consensus mechanism of how transactions are finalized on the network is using polka dot, but then they're able to build their own, what are called parents that utilize polka dot's consensus mechanism but can actually be their own.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Layer one.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah, their own layer one. Exactly. Right. You can build layer ones on polka dots, layer zero.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 So in my analogy, then, because this just came to me while you're talking, like, polka dot would be the Earth, and then all the pair chains would be the different countries within the Earth.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 That's a really good analogy.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Awesome. Very cool. So that's why you guys chose Poked Out, because the ability to then branch out further and further and further. Cool.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 That is so awesome. I've asked you a lot of questions about the room and, like, the future. Let's go back briefly before we start to wrap. Right. Q three. So I did look at the roadmap. You guys are doing some cool stuff during Q3which is well, no, I guess we're sitting in Q4now. We're in Q4. I know, right? A couple of weeks ago, Christmas so wild. It's insane how fast the year has gone by. How close are you guys to hitting all the deadlines and the points on the road map?
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah. So this quarter we're really focused on something called multi swap. So you know how I talked about a little earlier? We had the first iteration, which was that Interoperability 10, which is the cross chain token bridge.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Right, the janky.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah. And figuring out how we as Farm could move our own asset across networks without subjecting ourselves to exploits. Well, that product is evolving into something called multi swap. And multiwap is really cool because it allows for you to not just bridge any not just bridge asset A for asset A on another network, but swap asset A for asset B on another network. So multi swap allows you to swap any asset for any other asset on any network that we're integrated with, as long as liquidity exists on that network right.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 On the other side.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Any wallet? Yeah, it's a game. Changer products. Because right now it's really difficult for young ecosystems to attract new users and to attract TV to attract that total value walk that we talked about. Right. And the reason it's so difficult to do that is because the user journey and the user experience of getting there is so difficult. If you want to move your tokens from Ethereum to BSc, let's say you go to Uniswap, you swap your asset into a bridgeable asset, then you go to a bridge, and then you bridge it into the network or to the network that you want it on. And then you go to Coin Market Cap, and you go, okay, where can I trade this asset that I want to buy? And you go to a place called Pancakeswap. Then you go to Pancakeswap, and then you swap that bridgeable asset into the asset. But, oh, before you do that, if it's your first time using BSc, I don't have the RPC into my Metamaft, so now I have to go in, and I have to Google how to find the RPC. You enter it all in, and then, oh, I don't have any BNB token because I can't pay for gas. So you hit up a friend, you're like, hey, can you send me some BNB? Or you go to something called a faucet, and you get a tiny bit of B and B so that you can make the transaction. And now your journey in the DSC ecosystem has started. Right?
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 I'm laughing hysterically because it's no wonder why we haven't reached mass adoption, because of that journey people have to take. And I know what steps you were talking about. I know those things you were talking about, but a lot of my listeners are going to be like, what did he just say? It's not going to be like that forever. And this is what Ferrum is doing. So continue.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Sorry, I just have to you're right. It kind of sucks that people don't know how to move their tokens across other networks, and it's our own fault, right? We got to make this easier. And granted, we've done an incredible job up until now, but we keep improving. And making this user experience easier and easier to understand. And that's what multi swap is going to do. It's going to allow you to move any asset to any network with one interface, right, one application. You don't have to use a bridge, you don't have to use a deck, you don't have to use two decks, you don't have to go to climb temps together with completely lies all that is being handled on the back end. And what you're experiencing is basically just like a trade on uniswap or a trade on pancakeswap. But what's happening is it's trading it into a bridgeable asset. We're using USDC because USDC exists on all networks. You don't have to mint it, you don't have to wrap that version of the tokens. So remember how we were talking about wrapping tokens is bad and VP tokens is bad? USDC exists on all these other networks. So we just swap it into USDC, we bridge it to another network. We swap USBC into the asset that the person selected through the multi swap interface and we add the RPC for them. It's already added there. And we're actually exploring something called gas's transactions, which would mean that they would have to hold the token that they would need to pay for gas for the first time using that network that could be paid on the origin chain where they do have the networks token. So it would just be a couple of clicks and boom, they can go participate in this new network. So when you're asking about what's on our roadmap, that's our big one for this quarter. And so you kind of see that as like interoperability 1.5, right? Because it's halfway between our bridge and true interoperability. It's a stepping stone, right? But true interoperability is going to come up sometime next year. When we build our pair chain, we do our crowd loans, which is how you secure a pair chain slot on polka dot. And so that will be the next step after multi swap. And we'll have a white paper coming out talking about the main net, which will be coming out sometime next year for Q four, that's our big one is multiswap. And we should have a proof of concept test set for the main net out as well so people can kind of go mess around with it. So we're shooting for multi swap for sure. And we're shooting for a proof of concept test net so that people can kind of get some ideas as to what are made that's going to look like next year.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 That is so awesome, Nick. I'm so excited for not only you, but the whole spring team to get all this stuff put together and then also for the people like myself and listeners who get to engage in the ecosystem in such an easy, simple kind of way. Because the reality is blockchain technology is going somewhere. People get somewhat caught up with crypto and, oh, my God, the market is going down and everything's going to zero, but they don't focus on the technology, which is Blockchain. I don't care if Bitcoin goes to zero. It's what blockchain technology is doing, and you guys are doing incredible things in the space. Thank you so much for being here. Literally. This was such a fun conversation for me. I loved the answering back and forth and saying Janky a bunch of times on here.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah, Brook, thank you so much. And I want to say one thing about what you just said about Blockchain being here forever. I am in Bogota right now, Columbia. I came down here for def con. Defcon is like the biggest crypto conference in the world, right? And there must have been 20,000 people. I don't know what the head count was, but it was huge. And here we are bottoming out at 1820, right? Bitcoin is kind of like just staying stagnant, and everyone's really bored, and everyone, is crypto going to stick around? Is it going to be here forever? As a retail investor, you might find yourself thinking that. Well, as somebody who is building in this space and was just at the biggest conference in the world, def Con, some of the things that you hear people talking about you're like, wait, we weren't here from a technological standpoint during the board run, and now we are. And so the fundamentals of where we're at and what street do not reflect in where the market sentiment is at right now because these people are talking about things like ZK roll ups, DAOs, kind of having their footing now and some ground to stand on. Decentralized autonomous organizations, they're taking over. You've got different types of token standards, different types of NFTs coming out. NFT is being used for real world applications. The stuff that they're talking about now at Def Con just last week was leaps and bounds ahead of where we were six months ago, even. And so when we talk about Web City being here to stay, it was super validating seeing how many people are still building, the quality of the things that they're building, just like, mind blowing stuff that just goes right over my head. But I know it's powerful, you know what I mean? It's pretty incredible. So, yeah, Web3 is here. People are still building in the background, regardless of what Bitcoin in Ethereum we're doing on the price chart.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Okay, so in your opinion, last question, are we early? Late? Did we miss the boat? Where we at, in your opinion?
 
 [Nick Odio]
 No, we have definitely not missed the boat.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 You heard. Nick said it too. I always tell you guys, you're still early. Learn, learn.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 You see so many tweets from people. It's so funny how you see all these tweets from folks like, man, I wish I would have bought Bitcoin at this price.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 I know.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 And then it's like, two years later, I wish I would have bought Bitcoin at this price. Those tweets never age well, right? You're always like, just get in, get in and just let it ride. Get your feet wet. And they always say it's really easy. Buy it support and sell it resistance, not financial advice. I mean, we've been sitting at 1920K for a minute now. I feel like we're on a nice support line. That was our previous all time high from the last full run. I do firmly believe that Bitcoin, one bitcoin, will cost a million dollars a day.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 1,001,000,000.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 1 million.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 1 million. Okay. I was like, Nick is the first person to have a first day.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 That cool.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 We'll have this on record. When it hits that timeframe, I'll pull this episode from the archives and be like, Nick, remember when you said that? Very cool. Well, Nick, how can listeners connect with Ferrum, like, more? How can they connect with you if they want to? Please share.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Yeah, for sure. So definitely Ferrum Network is our website. You can find a lot of information about what we're doing on the website. Definitely follow us on Twitter at farm network. And Telegram is another great place to get information on what we're doing. That is Ferrum_Network.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 I'll put all the links in the show notes, too, so it's easy for people just to click on and get right to where they need to go.
 
 [Nick Odio]
 Nice. Yeah. So telegram twitter, join our discord. We're really trying to get our discord popping lately, so hop in there. We'd love to see you in our community. Twitter, Telegram, Discord, and then for all information, go to the website.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Awesome. Thank you again, Nick. Thank you so much for being here. This was so fun for me. I hope it was fun for you guys there listening. And you know the drill. As we pull this ride into the station, make sure your arms and legs are in at all times. We are going to have you exit to the right and I will see you on the next one.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 You made it. Congratulations. That wasn't so bad, was it? I hope you laughed and learned a little bit more about this web, three universe and how simple and fun it can really be. Would you be so kind as to leave us a review and share it with your friends and family? It would mean so much to get this out to more people as we embark on the greatest transfer of wealth that has ever happened in human history. Can't wait to see you on the next one.