Ep 64: Scott Kveton on Jump and the Physically Backed NFT Marketplace

In this episode, Scott Kveton shares with Dr. Brook about his experience in the world of cryptocurrency, from early speculation to recent developments in NFT technology.

Scott Kveton is the CEO and cofounder of Jump, a company that provides white label NFT marketplaces. He is a passionate entrepreneur with 20 plus years of experience building companies in the Web1, Web2, and now the Web3 space.

Dr. Brook and Scott Kveton discuss Jump and its physically backed NFT marketplace. Scott learned about Jump and its physically backed NFT marketplace when he saw a food cart in Portland, Oregon accepting bitcoin as payment. They realized that there was an opportunity around physically backed NFTs and that there was a need for a custom white label NFT marketplace. They believe that people will take the leap with respect to Jump on how they can get liquidity from or participate in this alternative asset space. With Jump, people can sell into the market or get liquidity for a portion of their physical asset and receive the money back in USD.

"The size of the businesses that come from the technology that emerges, are significantly bigger than even the speculative bubbles."

In this episode, you will learn the following:

1. The potential for Jump to help customers get liquidity for physical assets that are more expensive, such as a $3 Million Spiderman comic book.

2. The ability for Jump to provide customers with a way to fractionalize their ownership of an asset, such as a St. Laurent bag or pair of shoes.

3. The potential for Jump to help its customers avoid using any of the techno terms associated with blockchain technology and crypto assets.

Connect with Scott:

Website: https://www.jump.co/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kveton

Twitter: https://twitter.com/kveton

Free Download:

The Words of Web3 - A comprehensive glossary of terms used in the space https://mailchi.mp/9d043022b5a0/words-of-web3

Connect with me:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbrooksheehan

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/DrBrookSheehan

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/drbrooksheehan

Transcript

[Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Dr. Brook here with yet another adventure through the Wild wild west of Web3. We are going to talk about some of the wild, wild west craziness with my copilot here, Scott Kveton. But before we do that, I want to give him a proper introduction and let you know who Scott is. Scott is the CEO and cofounder of a company called Jump. He is a passionate entrepreneur with 20 plus years of experience building companies in the Web One, Web Two, and now the Web3 space. He's worked with amazing people while cofounding several companies urban Airship, which is now called Airship Odava and Bacon. While he's cut his teeth on the tech side, helping build things out like Open Source Labs, open ID o off. He's made the switch to the business side back in 2007. Welcome to the show, Scott. Thank you so much for being here.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Thanks for having me.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Yeah, of course. So happy to have you. First things first. Yeah, sorry about that guys. If you're hearing a little back, it's like my connection it looks like my connection was a little bad. So I don't edit these. I love people to get the raw and the dirty because, hey, it shows them that maybe they could start a podcast of their own and have cool conversations like this. So with that being said, Scott, I always ask my copilots before we embark on this journey, what their Web3 story looks like.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Yeah, it goes back away. I started seeing Blockchain and specifically Bitcoin. It first came to my attention in 2012 and I thought it was pretty ridiculous at the time. And there was actually so I live in Portland, Oregon, and we have a lot of food carts. We're known for our food carts. And there was a food cart in Southeast Portland that was accepting bitcoin as payment. And the idea was that you would do 25 bitcoin for one of these. They had these little triangle looking fried deep fried pies and they had sweet and savory versions of it.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Oh my gosh.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 And so there were a bunch of us that got together and we said, oh yeah, let's go down and do this. Let's see the future of money, you know. And so we we went down and we all got bitcoin, which was a pain because it was all command line tools at the time. And so then we went down and took like 2 hours to make it happen. And I was like, wow, the future of money is really awesome. Everybody always has that. I once had so many bitcoin and then I took a break from it as I was running a couple of different other companies. I did a mobile company and then we did a point of sale company and then we sold the last company in 2017 and we got back together, my co founder and I, and we just said, god, this Web3 thing is cool. We like some of the concepts of it. So we built out a pretty big mining infrastructure. So like all the GPUs and a bunch of servers, and we actually pulled a bunch of extra power to my co founder's house. So we had that running. And this is when east was around 100 and $4150.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Oh my god.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Yeah. And so we were doing that and our wives were wondering why our electrical bills were in the thousands of dollars. And anyways, and then east crashed and we were like, this doesn't make any sense. So we sold our rigs, we got out of that. And then for a very short period of time, we had something called crypto athletes, which was kind of like NFTs before NFTs, even though NFTs were technically around. And so we had basically athletes that would be up on this site and you could pay to own it. We were mimicking something called crypto celebrities at the time, and it was very short lived, very ill fated. We got a takedown from the NFL. We tried to do a deal with them, but it was way too early, way too new. And these things are about technology, timing, and team. And we had two of the three, but unfortunately it takes all three. And so yeah, so those are sort of my dabbles in Web3. And then it was about a year and a half ago, we said, well, let's give this another shot. We didn't know what we wanted to do from a product perspective, but we knew that we had probably way too much experience sort of navigating these new technological like things that happen. And so we got together and basically created a consultancy to do helping early stage Web3 companies with the technical co founder side of things. And so we helped, I don't know, five or six different companies. And then we just sort of hit on something around, specifically around NFTs and physically back to NFT. And so that led us to where we're at. We shed all of our clients in February and then went hard building the products, signed our first customer in July, have a couple more coming, and then we'll be able to announce them all next year. So it's crazy, even during this crazy, what we call crypto, winter, fall, summer, spring, there's still anything businesses to be had for sure.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Well, I definitely want you to talk more about that, and that's what we're going to be talking about with jump. That's the current project that you and your co founder are working on. But you talked about the crypto winter, spring, summer, fall, whatever it is, I think it's crypto chaos. 2022 has been pretty much, for the most part, a lot of collapse and a lot of crash. We had that earlier this year with Terra, Luna, three Arrows capital, all of these things kind of falling to pieces. And then more recently, within the last four to six weeks with this thing going on with FTX and finance. Do you want to shed some light on that? Do you want to talk about that?
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Do you have any yeah, I think we should have seen this coming in January, all these companies did Super Bowl ads. That is basically your harbinger to the whole thing. The bottom is going to fall out. I remember, and I'm going to horribly date myself here, but I was working at Amazon back at the turn of the century, and I remember that 2000 Super Bowl was all about pets.com and all these crazy web van and all these other ridiculous businesses at the time. They were ridiculous, but ultimately ended up working out. So the same thing happened here this year with FTX and all these other things. But I mean, this is a pretty typical process that happens with sort of new technologies. The new technology happens. Massive speculation leads to over, investment leads to a bubble. Subsequently there's a crash. But then over the course of time, if you sort of graph it, the size of the businesses that come from the technology that emerges are significantly bigger than even the speculative bubbles. And so when you go back to 2000, the example that you can draw is AOL Time Warner, which at the time was the largest merger of any company in the history of history. And that was $200 billion. So really big deal. But when you think about today, we've got three or four companies that are in the trillion dollar range now that were all tech companies that were much, much smaller back then. So I actually think the first $10 trillion company by market cap will be a critical tow company. It just won't be an exchange that is playing shell games with people's personal assets, which just floors me to know and I mean, not to go on a ramp, but go on a rant.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Okay, you're allowed to rant on this show. Go on a ramp.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 We thought that SBF Sam Bankman Freid was sort of this prophet, this brilliant person who had done all these amazing things. And unfortunately, now that we've sort of pulled back the curtain, it's horrible. And Doequan was on a podcast with Martin Scarelli this week talking about SBF, and I'm thinking and they're all just sort of laughing about it, like, oh yeah, that's kind of funny. I'm like, what you've done is actually, I think, criminal. And oh my God, and why they can just laugh and say, well, I'm going to go do something else now. You have to kind of pay the piper. But anyway, so it'll be interesting to see. But as was the case with the.com Crumble in 2000, 2001, technically, we're kind of seeing the same thing happen here. I think we still have a ways to go. I think Tether is unfounded. I think there's some challenges there. They've already been deep a couple of times in the last few days and we just don't have transparency into these. So that makes me very nervous. But during all this chaos, blocks are still being verified. People can still hold their currency in their own wallets if they want to. No central bank has come along to bail these projects out. It is technically working like it's supposed to and exchanges fail. This won't be the last one, that's for sure. And ultimately the fundamentals of crypto are still there. It's just people put their trust in MTX or Luna or Docuan. I thought we were entering the world of trustless everything anyway. Okay, end of my rant on that one.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Okay, I want to adjust the tiny little bit because you've talked about The Factor and people putting their trust in the things. And for my loyal listeners, they know that a big part of what I talk about is understanding the fundamentals of where you're putting your money and having conviction around those projects or those companies. So it's not a lot of people who put their, quote unquote trust into Terra Luna were doing it based off price points or price predictions, right? They were watching it climb, climb, climb, and FOMOing, the fear of missing out, piping into the coin and then liquidating and losing everything or getting capitulated at the bottom. When Scott's talking about trust and trustless things, it is definitely well, I also want to say this because you are absolutely spot on when you say blocks are still being validated. The technology is still moving forward. Regardless of this being crypto chaos, there is still technology, blockchain technology that is moving forward. So this does have to happen. This is what is supposed to happen. There isn't supposed to be big centralized institutions coming in and playing Superman. What was that year that all the Lehman Brothers and all those guys were getting bailed out?
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 2008 was when within days they put together Tarp, and Tarp was a $750,000,000,000 package to bail out the banks. And I don't know how many people lost their homes. They were foreclosed on. There was exactly one person that removed time for that and it was all because they had basically done a lot of what SBF and Dope have done. They just did it under the guise of regulatory oversight, which anyway, I could go off.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Yeah, that's a whole another leg we can get into. But we're not because I definitely want to talk about Jump, but regulation is just okay, so on that note, on a better note, let's jump gears because I know Jump well. I don't know much about it. I told you I was going to learn a lot about it with you here on the podcast. So let's talk about what Jump is doing and what it's doing in the NFT marketplaces.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Yeah, we sort of took a look at the space and realized that there was an opportunity around physically backed NFTs. And so we sort of did a hard target search across a range of different alternative assets. And that could be fine art, trading cards, vintage cars, gems, watches, handbags, you name it. And then we sort of realized that there's a lot of really interesting marketplaces out there, and they're looking at ways that they can sort of get into Web3. And why would they want to get into Web3? Well, there's some challenges around liquidity and other sort of services that you can provide that web two marketplaces just don't enable that we thought would be interesting to help provide and build. So we essentially have built a custom white label NFT marketplace, complete with a variety of things around payments, around custodial wallet. And we kind of joke internally that we're like the AOL for blockchain in the sense that our customers have physical assets that they want to be able to get liquidity for, and they need to trust us to be able to do that. So in return, they want free and clear KYC AML, USD and so we handle all of the details of making that happen, and we do it in such a way that they don't really have to understand the details. When you think about where we're at with crypto right now, we're still talking about protocols and gas fees, and we're talking about the technology. Nobody cares about the technology. It's the use cases that pull users through. I don't open a socket connection to port four four three, and craft some metadata that I push to and then get a response so that I can learn about stuff on the internet. I google it, right? I don't like, go to my bank and set up an ACH connection to somebody else that takes five days to transfer. I then want them money, right?
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Yeah.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 So our take on this is we believe that people will end up sort of taking the leap, as it were, with respect to jump on how they can get liquidity from or participate in this alternative asset space. And we're doing it with NFTs, NFTs themselves. And some of the features of sort of Web3 and crypto, specifically the public ledger, the blockchain, the provenance of NFTs, all these things really serve to help us provide an interesting, new, compelling platform for folks. And what we're trying to do is avoid using any of the sort of techno terms and really just solve for use cases for folks.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 That's great. There is a lot of techno terms in the space which is where I wanted to kind of interject but I wanted to let you finish also because my audience is an audience who are crypto curious people that are either a in the space maybe like very short term and still trying to get their feet wet and figure things out. And then there's some people also sitting on the fence going, okay, what is this really? And how do I get involved and what do I do? You mentioned the term liquidity there that I want you to define for the listeners so they understand. When you say you have a bunch of customers or people that would be utilizing Jump because they have physical assets to provide them liquidity, what are you meaning right there?
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Yeah, I think one of the challenges for physical assets, especially physical assets that are more expensive, is how do I get liquidity for a $3 million Spiderman comic book? And so there are only so many buyers of that, but there's a lot of people who love to own a part of that. And so through some of the way that the platform works and we sort of talked about some folks call it fractionalization. We don't call it fractionalization because the SEC frowns upon that. They consider that a security. That's a whole other discussion to be had. But this idea that if I could essentially sell into the market or get liquidity for, say, 30% of my Spiderman comic book, I would get that money back directly to me in the form of USD that I could use for other things, and then that 30% will be out in the marketplace. Great. What do they get with that? Well, one of the great things about NFT is that you can associate a whole bunch of utility tied to those assets, if that makes sense. That's some of the things that we do around being able to provide that liquidity. If it makes sense, yeah.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Okay, so I'll try to break it down how I understand it from you and then see if this kind of layman terms helps. Because I know there's term I understand when you say, like, fractionalization and things like that, but a lot of people might be listening to this going like, what the heck? Okay, let's say that I'm going to use the analogy you talked about expensive. I'm st Laurent. Okay? And I have a lot of that, and I have a lot of shoes. And there's people who want to own a St. Laurent bag, and they want to own St. Laurent shoes. So basically, if St. Laurent is one of your customers with Jump, they can say, okay, well, Dr. Brook owns this black bag of ours. I purchased the bag. Where there's some disconnect in my mind is I'm the holder of that bag. How does that then become where it can be fractionalized? I rent my bag to other people with that 30%.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Well, there is actually a model for that that's actually something different that will be coming down the road from us. But ultimately, where we think it's really interesting is the ability to actually hold those assets in escrow. And by holding them in escrow, it does a couple of different things. In other words, in the case of bags, it's a little tricky because you like to wear those watches, same thing. But in the case of collectible items, like fine arts or trading cards. Those probably shouldn't see the light of day, you shouldn't touch them, you shouldn't breathe on them, those kinds of things. And so by holding them in escrow, you can effectively not only can you get liquidity for it and also you can verify where it's at, you can also get insurance for it, you could potentially do lending on it. There's all kinds of things like that that, again, provide for liquidity for these assets that you couldn't do otherwise.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Okay, so that just created a lot of light bulb moments in my head and connection points for me. So just for the listeners, this is it. So when he talked about the comic book example, like you said, you shouldn't breathe on it, you shouldn't touch it. It should just be held somewhere, like a special vault in a place. Then that comic book creator is just collecting dust. Or like me as the holder, I would say like me as the owner of it, is just collecting dust for me. But I can then take that comic book and say, like, Scott, I'm going to sell 30% of my comic book value to you and now we both become owners of this comic book. Correct?
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 That is correct. Yeah.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Perfect. That's awesome. So Jump is doing this with the physical? Well, you talk about the physical back to NFT. So these are actual physical products that then there is a digital digital footprint on blockchain. Okay, cool. Very cool. And then let's talk about royalties. How does that because I know that there was a blog post on your guys'website about the thing with NFTs. Again, to just break down some terms. NFTs, if you create an NFT and you quote, unquote, mint your project, then if that NFT gets sold again, you can earn anywhere from ten to 50% royalties on that. You can kind of determine the price, if you'd like, where you want that to be. What are your guys'viewpoints on royalties and how is Jump doing things differently?
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Yeah, so when NFTs came along, basically the community creates these proposals, which are proposals that are the basis for how things will work together on the blockchain effectively. And one of those originally was, ERC, 720. And then there was another one that came along called, ERC, 1155. And these sort of define the ways that NFTs will work on the blockchain, how people can buy and sell them.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 1 second. So, ERC, 721 and ERC, 1155. Initially, what Scott is saying is a smart contract. A smart contract.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Yeah, that's right. That's right. And what's interesting is the way these are phrased is it's very loose language and then the technology actually has to sort of solve for how it's going to work and then the blockchain itself and the way that the blockchain works. It sort of solves and make sure that what you're saying in this basically request proposal for folks, for how it's going to work together. That because of the way the blockchain works. It's immutable. Once you do something on there, you can't go back, right. That makes this sort of for keeps, as it were. And that's absolutely critical here. And so one of the components of that that they put in there was you can pay a royalty to the original mentor. And it was very like, you can do it, and it's anywhere from zero to 100%.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Oh, you can go full.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Yeah, you can totally go full. It's arbitrary, right? I mean, you can do whatever you want, right. But the problem became, once people dug into it, they realized that most of the early marketplaces like openSee and others adhered to it because it's up to the marketplace, because they arbitrate the transaction between the buyer and seller. And then the marketplace has to say, okay, great, then we're going to take a piece of this and we're going to send it to this wallet address that happens to be the creator of the mentor of the original MC. Well, recently you've had a bunch of the with liquidity draining in the market. In other words, with the market crashing a little bit, everybody's trying to find places they can sort of chisel a point here and there away from their margins. So, one, they can attract users in the case of marketplaces, and two, so people can make more money, right. And the royalty fee was the sort of the place that people went because, again, it was kind of optional and up to the marketplaces. And so, unfortunately, you've seen this rates to the bottom on this. And I think ultimately what's going to happen is some of the things like what we're doing, which is we're going to enforce royalties ourselves, and it's going to be part of our contract.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Okay.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 I don't think crypto purists are going to like it because we're going to do it from sort of a centralized fashion. We have to make royalties work because we believe that it's part of the contract of why people want to participate in this ecosystem.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Is this similar to what Apple is trying to do with taking like a big chunk percentage from NFT creators? And a lot of people are kind of bucking. The.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Apple piece is an interesting beast because Apple owns the platform. So if you want to play on their platform, you have to pay a 30% fee. And when you think about the NFT space and having to pay 30% just to Apple, and then there's 70% to carve up between everybody else, yeah, it's really painful. And this is for a topic for a whole other podcast. But in in one of the sessions I was in I was at a founders retreat this weekend and we sort of came to the conclusion that the metaverse and sort of Web3 and crypto will have a very difficult time with mass adoption until Apple and Google are dealt with on the devices. In other words, until we break this 30% stranglehold, it's going to be hard for the metaverse or for crypto to break through. Now, I think there will be other ways that it happens, maybe regulation, those kinds of things, but it was sort of a sobering moment when we all were sitting around and we all thought we were really smart people and we were like, oh, that's kind of really hard to break through that right now.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Yeah.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Sort of creating your own device, as it were. But that's a tall order.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Yeah. Okay, so you guys are going to come in. Okay. I'm putting all the pieces together in my mind. If I'd done it incorrectly, please let me know. So Jump is a white label NFT marketplace.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 That's right.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Okay. And so I come in. I utilize jump software. You guys already have your built in royalties, so I don't know. Did you even talk about the percentage? Maybe I cut you off when you.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Decide it's up to our partners.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Got it. Okay.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Yeah. They decide based on their relationships with the asset holders.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 They say it's X like percentage, and then that's where it gets locked into their contract to whatever. And that's their own NFT marketplace. It looks like theirs. It has all their branding, it has everything. But it was jump built. Like Jump. Cool. Very cool. Okay. I like it. I like where it's going.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 And one of the reasons we wanted to focus on existing marketplaces and folks are sort of in the web two spaces. They have a lot of the relationships for each of these each of these different asset classes has its own communities, has its own expertise. And so we wanted to kind of help enable them and sort of bring them into what we're doing with the Web3 piece and expose sort of the really great advantages to their existing data sets, assets they have. And again, back to that community component I think is really critical here. Anyway, so that's kind of what we've tried to enable, and then we have some little tricks up our sleeves down the road. Once hopefully we get to scale that we're excited about that. Hopefully I can come back for another business to talk about.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 But yeah, of course. These are always fun. Definitely. And I love to bring people who are kind of I know that you've had a lot of success in other companies, but bring them through as their project starts to move through and does get traction, and then bring them on and say, hey, remember when we introduced you to Scott from Jump? Look at where Jump is now. They've literally jumped light years ahead. Very cool.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 That's what we're shooting for.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Yeah, right. Awesome. Well, we're getting ready to pull this train into the station. I will definitely make sure I put in the show notes, the links and everything for people to connect with you and to stay in touch with Jump and to know what's going on with the project. And maybe they might be maybe somebody out there listening to this podcast right now. Could be a potential Jump customer or maybe know somebody who could benefit from what Jump is doing. So definitely be sure to reach out. But is there any final things that you want to touch on, talk about before we do that?
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 I don't think so. I think it's interesting. One of the things that a lot of folks talk about is like, why do we need Web3? What do we need Blockchain for? And you know, I sort of hearken back to, you know, 2008, 2009, when sort of mobile really happened, right? Like we had mobile phones before that, but we didn't really have them until the iPhone and sort of everybody really rushed out and said, oh, we have to have an app, we have to have an app. And so they went and launched these apps and we're seeing a lot of, well, we have to be in Blockchain, we have to do NFTs, but why? And it took a couple of years on the mobile side for companies to realize that this device now allows you to do something. You know who the person is, you know where they are, you potentially understand some insights about them and that can affect your core business. And you take somebody like Starbucks who said, well, yeah, I could see the menu for things, but what if I could send out a message saying, hey, here's the pick of the week that I normally get in the store. I can just click a button or I can carry a balance and pay at the register or I can order ahead. And those are the things that took the natural or unique benefits of mobile and applied it to the core business. And the exact same thing is happening with Blockchain right now. We have these fundamental building blocks that are now coming together, and companies are finally starting to realize, oh, this will have an impact on how I do loyalty in the future. Or this may actually increase the value of my assets over time or the items that I create because there's a sort of provenance trail to prove that it existed and when it was built or when it was created and those kinds of things. These types of things take time and we're going through some crazy ups and downs, but ultimately we're going to be much better for the work.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Okay, so because this will be airing at the end of 2022, what do you foresee in 2023 for Blockchain big picture?
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 Yeah, that's a good question.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 One year ahead.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 I think we'll start to see some real applications. I still think we're going to see some more pain in terms of markets. So don't play the markets, play use cases in the technology and those kinds of.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Things.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 I still think the two biggest opportunities in tech, not just blockchain, are search and social. We've got all the social companies tanking right now, other than TikTok. We were joking about how what if you could use TikTok for work instead of having zoom? You'd do TikTok anyway?
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 Oh, my God.
 
 [Scott Kveton]
 But the idea that having a social layer for everything that I do on the Internet, I'd love to see my friends reviews. I'd love to see products they buy, they bought. Or anyway, same thing with search. If you go on Google right now and search for something, you get 10,000 ads or all these SEO links. Search is really broken. Anyway, big opportunities. I think there's blockchain components for both of those as well.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 I love it. I love it. Well, my personal opinion, I know you're in the NFT space with jump and jumps and NFT. I personally not to just go on a random statement, but I personally believe NFTs are where mass adoption in the blockchain space is going to come through. I do believe people are going to hold NFTs and they don't even realize they're in it. Like holding an NFT. They're going to take their airplane QR code at the airport and scan it and it used to say Southwest or Delta or whatever. And now it's going to be a cool little picture of Denver or whatever that they can hold in their wallet on their phone and that's going to be an NFT. So that's just my two cent, but I don't know if it's going to happen in 2023. I still think we're really soon. Very cool. Scott, thank you so much for being here. And for those of you listening, you know the drill. If you've heard other episodes in the past, as we pull this train into the station, wait till to disembark before we come to a full stop and exit to your right. We will talk to you next week.
 
 [Dr. Brook Sheehan]
 You made it. Congratulations. That wasn't so bad, was it? I hope you laughed and learned a little bit more about this web series ReUniverse and how simple and fun it can really be. Would you be so kind as to leave us a review and share it with your friends and family? It would mean so much to get this out to more people as we embark on the greatest transfer of wealth that has ever happened in human history. Can't wait to see you on the next one.